Beginning Wendler 5/3/1

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9 years 10 months ago #3020 by admin
Anyone try the Wendler 5/3/1 system? I just switched to it last week and am getting used to the training volume! I'm doing the Boring But Big template.

Here's one question that someone might be able to answer: does the order of the main workouts matter? Following one website, I started doing it in the order:

  1. Day One: squat
  2. Day Two: bench press
  3. Day Three: deadlift
  4. Day Four: press

Also, do you think situps are an acceptable alternative to hanging leg raises? I just don't have any place in my basement gym for the latter.

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9 years 10 months ago #3024 by Bull Terrier
The order of the main workouts doesn't make much difference - I even remember Jim Wendler saying so himself.
Furthermore the precise choice of the assistance exercises doesn't make a huge difference - the system is all about driving up the four main lifts. Everything else is almost perfunctory to this main objective.
These are - in my opinion - the most important tenets to adhere to:

- Use realistic maximum weights when doing your calculations and then calculate 90% of this number to give you your training max. Your workout percentages are then calculated of this training max. Don't cheat on this step. The workouts will feel easy at first, but with time they will start to get very difficult indeed.
- Don't always push too hard on the final set - just do it when you feel particularly on-form. Always leave a rep or two in the tank in any case.
- Be careful doing deadlifts twice per week (i.e. boring but big sets + main 5/3/1 set). It could well be wise to reduce the weights below 50% of Training Max for the Boring But Big sets. It is very easy to get overtrained on deadlifts.
- Don't push too hard on the assistance exercises. They should feel relatively easy. You're just looking to get in the reps without breaking too much of a sweat doing them.
- Take advantage of the Boring But Big sets to attempt to improve your form on the main lifts. For example - for many people - this means going down lower on squats, or else on deadlift actually resting the bar on the floor before pulling it up again. If you have the opportunity have a proper coach watch you to give you feedback on your form.

Anyway, that's my $0.02 on the subject.
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9 years 10 months ago #3025 by admin
Replied by admin on topic Beginning Wendler 5/3/1
From what I saw on Wendler's blog post on his site about Boring But Big, he says you can do the 5x10 (accessory) sets of deadlifts (for example) on either the main deadlift day, or on another day. If you do them on the deadlift day (as I'm doing) then overtraining for that shouldn't be a problem. On my very first day of the system I did just 3 of those accessory sets though, as I thought more would have been too much.

I am concerned about overtraining my lats though, since both examples he gives have you doing lat work twice per wave. Obviously you can mitigate that by not using too much weight, or going too close to failure.

Here are a couple more questions:

  1. How long do you rest between each accessory set? I'm supersetting them to save time, and am resting 3 min between each superset.
  2. Let's say you're doing the accessory one-arm dumbbell rows, 5x10. Do you pick a weight that doesn't tire you out much, e.g. so it feels similar to the 50% of the core lift at 5x10? I couldn't find any info on this, in the limited research I did.

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9 years 10 months ago #3028 by Bull Terrier
I'll answer all points of your post..
First off - I think that it's generally better to train the main lifts twice per week, hence I put my Boring But Big sets on another day to the 5/3/1 sets. Here's what I do:

Monday
Military press 5/3/1
Bench press Boring But Big
Accessory work (lat pulldown + lying tricep extensions) all on 3 sets of 10-15 reps

Tuesday
Deadlift 5/3/1
Squat Boring But Big
Accessory work (ab raise with dumbell)

Thursday
Bench press 5/3/1
Military press Boring But Big
Accessory work (dumbell rows)

Friday
Squat 5/3/1
Deadlift Boring but Big (albeit with less than 50% of Training Max, and usually 3 sets rather than 5)
Accessory work (Ab machine)

I rest 2 minutes between accessory sets, and occasionally superset the exercises on the Monday workout.
To anwer your second question - I just pick a weight that doesn't tire me out too much and do 3 sets, normally between 10 and 15 reps. Some days when I feel worn out I also skip the accessory exercises. My reasoning is simple - if I'm feeling worn out then I need to be careful to ease up in gym. My focus is on increasing the four main lifts, don't really care so much about the accessory exercises.

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